Toward A Lasting Peace: Nadav Tamir and Ezzeldeen Masri

At our March 7th service, we were joined by guest speakers Nadav Tamir, an accomplished Israeli diplomat who serves as J Street Israel’s Executive Director, and Ezzeldeen Masri, a respected Palestinian educator who serves the U.S. Director of Outreach for OneVoice Movement and serves as the Chief Field Officer for the PeaceWorks foundation. The pair spoke candidly with our community about the peacemaking process.

JStreet
https://jstreet.org/

PeaceWorks
https://peaceworksfoundation.org/

Purim Party: You Are So Not Invited To Mishkan's BMitzvah
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https://www.mishkanchicago.org/event/you-are-so-not-invited-to-mishkans-bmitzvah-purim-2025/

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Produced by Mishkan Chicago. Music composed, produced, and performed by Kalman Strauss.

Transcript

Transcript

So I know many of you are here tonight because it's Shabbat, and where else would you be, but also, many of you are here because we're hosting Nadav Tamir and ezzelin Masri, two speakers, one Israeli, one Palestinian. Thank you J Street for bringing them to Mishkan so that we could learn in the way that we like to learn best, really, which is to say, from people with actual, direct, lived experience of the thing that we are talking about. And thank you to Lance Friedman, if you're watching tonight, for making the introduction. And thank you all for being here. Rabbi Steven and I this morning, we attended a training. This is a weekend that the Jewish child and family services, jcfs, is doing a city wide thing about in Jewish communities, helping people navigate estrangement from family members. You know, just like a phenomenon that's actually kind of a modern phenomenon, as it turns out that for whatever reason, and we could, we could talk about what all the reasons are, for many people, the most easy way to take care of your heart in a relationship that is hurting you is to just stop talking to The person or people that are hurting your heart. And we talked about all kinds of different reasons why that, you know, sometimes happens in families, but then the but then the instructor actually sort of interrupted one of the rabbi and was like, Oh, I know what you're going to say next Israel. She was like, how Israel shows up in families, and how parents don't talk to kids anymore, and how grandparents don't go to their grandkids weddings because of this topic. Because talking about this topic sends everybody we looked at like a graphic that had like, green at the bottom and yellow in the middle and red at the top. You have to imagine green is you at your most relaxed state. She said, This is how the Dalai Lama is all the time. She's like, he has a driver. All he does is meditate all day. People make his food like, that's what living in the green is. But you know what you feel like when you're at your most relaxed? And then there's like, yellow, which is maybe where many of us live much of the time. You know, you're a little bit activated, but you can function. And then red is when you're like, fully activated and cannot think straight. But as it turns out, this is a topic that can send people into the red very quickly, while we pretend to be in the green. And so one thing she advised, she said, You know, when people come into your office to talk to you about those relationships that are struggling because of talking about this issue. She said, don't talk about the issue. Don't, don't, like, engage, you know, don't get into it on like, what do you think the solution is to this long standing? No, like, actually get into the sadness, the hope, the expectations, the relationship, the, you know, the stuff that's the stuff that they can feel in their body, not the stuff that's happening out there. And we also need spaces where we can be comfortably uncomfortable, where you know that your body is safe, where you know that like you're in a you're in a room of people who want to think and wrestle with a topic that's a that's a really personal, thorny topic for so many, used to be a topic that, in the Jewish community was like, absolutely the most unifying topic, and now is absolutely the most polarizing topic. And so many families and many Jewish communities can't do what we're going to do in a moment, which is here, people share their perspective. I can share a little bit about your upbringing, and then you'll go deeper. So nada. Tamir has been in public service since he joined the Israeli Foreign Ministry in 1993 under Yitzchak rabbien government, right and has been in public service ever since earned his MA from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government as a Wexner fellow, any other Wexner fellow, oh Rabbi Steven in philosophy and political science from Hebrew University, got his BA and lives in givatan with his wife, Dr Ronit Tamir her three children, Ezel Deen Masri, as I said, is the chief field officer for the Peaceworks Foundation. He was born in Gaza City. Got his BA in Political Science and criminology from Northeastern Illinois University. Any Northeastern Illinois? Yeah, hey. All right. And an MA in international relations with a specialization in conflict resolution and in 2000 he moved back to Palestine, is that right? With a job with the American International School in Gaza as a social studies teacher and the head of the Upper School. And then in 2006 opened the one voice Palestine Gaza office. He'll tell us a little bit about that. And it was appointed Executive Director at the end of the first Gaza war. He moved to Ramallah and accepted the job of director of development for that organization. And in 2011 he moved back to the Gaza Strip and was appointed as director of one voice Gaza, and came back to the US 10 years ago, and is currently doing the work with Peaceworks foundation. So what I'd love to hear from both of you is both you know a little bit about the organization you are working with, but not just what you do, also why you are doing what you do.

Palestinian American, originally from Gaza, like Rabbi Lizzi said and I became involved in politics from early age, day by 70, and with the eruption of the first uprising, other I became one of the members of the United leadership of the uprising in northern Gaza. So by the 1987 December, 1987 with the option of the first uprising, the Intifada, I joined the United leadership of the uprising in northern Gaza, and I start doing things behind my family's back without killing them, covering my face, and go out at night spray Paint PLOS directions for the strikes hanging Palestinian flags. Unfortunately, strikes, and I kept on doing that until I came to Chicago in 1990 to study political science at Northeastern University. And when I finished my master's, I went back because I wanted to take part in building the Palestinian state, and the aim was to work for the Palestinian government. Worked a little bit with the American International School. Then I was recruited by the Palestinian diplomatic corps, where I was a first secretary working in the Peace sector. What I do? What I do, because I want to see an end to the Israeli military occupation of the Gaza strip that was bank East Jerusalem, and to have a Palestinian state. We are 14 million Palestinians, half of us in the occupied territories in Gaza that was banking East Jerusalem, and the other half is in diaspora. And we are people under the sun, and we deserve to have a state. Just like the Israelis have a state, we deserve to have a state.

Thank you. Thank you for beautiful service like me. Thank you for coming during rabbi, which is not easy, but in a Zionist, progressive home, and I remain progressive, I fought in the Lebanon War, and that my result. The result was that I decided I need to be a diplomat, because I've seen the limit of military power. And eventually I did become a diplomat. And my first position was in the office of Shimon Peres after the Bosco courts were signed, and I saw the promise of peace. And back then, I already realized that if we don't end the occupation, the occupation will end us, and we cannot be free and secure in our own state if the Palestinians will not be free and secure in their state. And later on, as a diplomat, I served in the US. I served in the embassy in Washington, and later on as Consul General to England, and I've seen Jewish organizations trying to help Israel, and then see saw a Jewish community that was that couldn't find a critical role in those Jewish organizations, because they kind of told them the only way to support Israel is to be in line with the governments who became more and more right wing, which was, you know, a very hard for many Jews who tend to be more liberal and progressive, and they didn't think that in order to love Israel, between Palestinians. So when Jason was great, when I was in Boston, I said, Wow, this is exactly what we need, an organization that is not part of the blame game, but it's part of the solution, and trying to create political space for American foreign policy that could help us solve this conflict and bring dignity and freedom and security to both people. And this is what I do today as the Israeli director of J Street, and I feel very much at home even in those very sad days. And we're all heartbroken, Israelis and Palestinians and both. Both are pretty blind to the suffering on the other side, but I also do believe that with all this tragedy, we have a huge opportunity that we would probably get into in the questions that is there for us to grab, and I hope we will be smart enough to do

it. Well, why don't? Why don't you follow that thread? What I mean this moment feels, I think, pretty bleak, you know. And not just, not just in your country, you know, but, but that's what we're talking about right now

and so. So, why?

Why do you think this is an opportunity in this moment? And I would love to hear from your perspective, and also yours as like, what's different and unique and uniquely right in this moment for this conversation?

Sure. So I think that what extent october 17 is that it kind of brought home to many people outside Israel, especially the Arab countries around us, a sense of urgency that we cannot just leave this conflict and manage it or keep it. And it has so many spillover effect all over and there is on a table an offer from the army from the entire Arab countries around us to normalize relations with Israel, but it has to include a Palestinian state. It has to include alternative to Hamas in Gaza, which is Palestinian. And unfortunately, we don't grab this offer because of our current government. But this government is not there forever, and I do believe that if American Jews and liberal Israelis were the majority, according to all service will push towards that direction, we could change completely our situation on the ground. It's true that today, because of the trauma and the fear, when you come to most Israelis and tell them, we have to end up with patients for moral reasons or demographic reasons, you don't get much traction. But when you connect it to the security that we could achieve if the whole region would normalize relations with Israel, and it will not be just a two state solution, but the 23 state solution, I think that could completely transform the region and at the same time give the Palestinians the freedom that they deserve. So I think that, you know, it's very hard to predict what your administration will do when we will have the elections. But I actually think that even though Biden worked very hard in order to create this opportunity, and worked very hard with all Arab countries and try to reform the policy authority. Unfortunately, he wasn't strong enough to overcome the obstacle of our government. And I think Trump, even though he has completely the rabbi values, in my mind, if you want glory and business, the Saudi deal is what he's looking for, and the Saudi deal will have to include the Palestinian state. So I think that is the opportunity is there, but it will not happen if we will not work at it. Because hope is not something that you just wish, something that you work and act for. This is what J Street is trying to do in the Jewish community and in American politics.

Thank you. As what's, what's your view of the word opportunity to describe this moment and and if it you know does feel different? Well, I mean

October 7 hamasters attack against Israel and the atrocities committed by Hamas I also lost two cousins. My first two cousins were killed by Hamas and near ambush. So here and khair al Masih, they had permissions to work and sleep inside Israel. And when Hamas broke into the mushab, they shot at the white van they were in. They killed seven Palestinians, including two of my cousins. And if Hamas kidnapped 250 Israelis on October 7 and brought them to Gaza, they kidnapped 2 million Palestinians in 2007 and I was there when it happened. And I blame the Palestinian Authority for not standing their ground and defending the Gaza Strip and US Palestinians in Gaza. And in the same time, I've named Israel for NATs, Indian and Apache, or an F 16 to stop Hamas coup, and later on, Ben, I mean Netanyahu, supporting Hamas with $30 million in cash. Ash from the Qataris every month. We need to stop managing the conflict once and for all, and we need to solve it once and for all, because this is a conflict between two proud people, the Jewish Israelis and the Palestinian Arabs. And we cannot ask Palestinians. We cannot continue living under military occupation. It deprives of your dignity, your freedom, and you feel this than a man under a military occupation. So we'll continue our struggle for our independence, and I support nonviolent struggle, smart, nonviolent struggle to end the occupation and to have a Palestinian state. But not everybody's like me. You have Palestinians who have been living in refugee camps for the past 77 years, since the Nakba, since the catastrophe, and these refugee camps, especially in Gaza, are hotbeds for extremism, is recruits for Hamas and for Jihad and Islam. And I said that once I once I was lost it. And far as and I the audience started to shout that they cannot sleep. It's not safe. The Gazans throw rockets at them. And I told them, Listen, you gotta know who threw rockets at you. The one who threw rockets at you are the refugees that lived here in 1948 and now delivering Japan a refugee camp miserable conditions. Iran uses them. Hezbollah uses them. Hamas uses them, and they throw rackets at you. And until these refugee camps are closed and those Palestinian refugees are rehabilitated and cities built for them, and emergence of a Palestinian state, there will be a problem. So I told them, for them to vote for politicians in Israel who support peace and support a negotiated solution. This is an opportunity again. I repeat, because we don't want to see again. What happened in October 7, happening again. I lost my home was bombed by the Israelis. My whole neighborhood was bombed by the Israelis. Over 100 houses were demolished. I lost 100 and some of my extended families. Those were civilians, grandmas and grandpas and kids, not combatants. I also lost combatants, but I don't count those. I count the civilians. The Israelis and the Palestinians don't deserve to live like this. There is enough land between the Mediterranean and the rabbi Jordan, for us to have a negotiated two state solution. You don't want Israel. You don't want to give us equal citizenship in Israel, just like the Arabs in the triangle, in Nazareth and in the mixed cities. You don't want to because you want to keep your Israel Jewish and democratic. You don't want a bi national democratic state. They leave us alone. Allow us to live. Allow us to have our own country, our own airport, our own seaport. Allow us to live. We are suffocating under military occupation. I left. I don't want to come back to America. I finished with America. I did my masters. I went back. I built a house. I was I had full time job, part time job, my wife. My wife was working. I was raising my kids in Gaza, but I had to face three wars, 2008 2012 2014 miserable conditions to live under, and I came back to America scared for my kids. We need to solve this problem. We cannot wait.

First of all, I think as you just shared all of your family's loss, we all are mourning with you and

thank you. Sorry. I mean, the words don't really

care. And I'm sorry also for the Israelis. You know, I feel sad for the Israelis having to go through this. Yes,

so you began your career under Yitzhak rabbi in a time when peace songs were being written in Israel, and there was a much more optimistic feeling. I think that was true in Israel, and I think it was also true among Palestinians that there was really hope for self determination, for two peoples to, you know, have their own governments and healthcare. Systems and, you know, flags and airports and

and that

that vision was dashed by extremists, right by galamir Killing Yitzhak rabbien, and movement that birthed him, which really is the movement that now is governing Israel and and also Palestinian, you know, the mosfamis and the Second Intifada, which, you know, sort of created the security apparatus that is, that is, now, you know what the occupation looks like, and the security, you know, sort of what you were describing is the like Israelis are not motivated by, you know, sort of the moral question of the occupation. Really, it's a question about security, but it seems like it's extremists, people who actually are less concerned about security and more concerned about the kind of Messianic, total vision of ownership of the entire land. And that's true. I think it's true on both sides. You've got the Jewish version, you have a Palestinian version of that. And it seems that they are really good. They're the minority, but they're really good at throwing the entire enterprise of peace building away every single day. I know so many people involved in on the ground peace work and in diplomacy and what you both describe, you know, a vision of moving toward a negotiated peace between, you know, individuals who just want to live in this land that they love, raise their families, have gardens, go to school, go to college. So how? What's the way? What's the way that the extremists don't win this conflict? Because it seems right on both sides, they're actually working together, right?

Yes, each other. The key word that you used it also in your service, is hope. I believe that hope is not just by mistake our national anthem, but we had too many leaders that think that, you know, fear is a better notivisor And you know and victimization, so we have to work on the boat. And I believe that if with the help of the international community, especially in the US, especially the Jewish community, if we could make the two states real and tangible, most Israelis will support it. We were in trouble or so after the OCP war, after the wars with Egypt and Syria and Israel, became very hawkish and voted for a very hawkish Prime Minister, Bernath begin, but a few years later, with a lot of help from the US, we have a peace with Egypt, the largest and strongest Arab country in the world, and we had after us, after the First Intifada, which was also very traumatizing, we had Oslo and the peace with Jordan. So I do believe that those who believe in peace, both here and there, in Palestine, in Israel, in the US, should work hard to bring back the hope. And I'm sure Israelis and Palestinians that peace come in both countries will become a larger force, if they will feel that it is tangible, because there is nothing that is more helping the terrorists than the lack of hope. We know from all research that when there is a political horizon, Hamas shrinks to less than 20% of the Palestinian society. But when there is no Hamas prize, and we know also that this government in Israel is not popular. Majority of Israelis want to end the war with a hostage deal and to move towards a diplomatic solution and creating an alternative to Hamas in Gaza. So we just need to get rid of them, and we can only do it with activism. So despair is not a strategy. We have to act. Hope is the only thing that could change it. But not just hope at home, hope in doing politics, in doing activism in servants, I think that we should all act to bring it together, because I think that's the only future for Palestinians, for Israelis and for the Jewish people.

I must say that both the extremists in Israel and in Palestine work in a way that defeat and each other's actions and reactions, and we've seen that plays very clear between bengavir In particular, bengavir and yachts, Hamas, leader in Gaza started around The Temple, mounts, skirt matches, little war here and there, and then the thing got blown out of control. That said, I also wanted to say that extremists are successful because are dedicated 24/7, to their vision. They wake up, they go to sleep. Thinking how we are going to achieve victory for our side. On the other hand, moderates are normal people, okay, normal, okay. They want to live, you know, they want to raise their kids. They want to go out, okay? But then at one point, they want to think about the Coronavirus, and they want to make everything good in the world, okay, that doesn't work. Okay? We need we need commitment. We need for the silent majority here in the United States to really approach their elected representative and tell them that, you know, it's very important this subject is very important for you to end the subject without the US involvement in Israel, Palestine peace process. There is no peace process. Only country that was able to bring Anwar, Sadat and Menachem Begin together in Camp David was America Jimmy Carter and the peace had lasted for more now than 40 years. Okay? And Egypt is the biggest Arab country with 100 and 12 million. Imagine 100 and 12 million are at war with Israel now, but because of peace, there is no war between Egypt and Israel. And I want to see that also between us Palestinians and Israel. I remember time during the early 80s that we didn't even have borders between US and Israel. Gaza Israeli Jews came to my village to shop for vegetables and to fix their cars, and we also went to work inside Israel without having to have a permission. My first job was in Ashkelon when I was maybe 15 years old, picking up apples. So for me, Israelis are not strangers, especially for us Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem, we grew up around Jews and around the Israelis, but the continuation of the military occupation made things very difficult, because there is no there is no people that will sit silent when there is a foreign military occupation that subjugates them, and it happens with you too, Jewish people and 132 ad with barcova revolt against the Romans, and you challenge the biggest and the strongest Empire around the world and what happened? You were crushed, and you were sent into exile for 2000 years away from Jerusalem. So and you kept on saying, next year in Jerusalem, for 2000 years, my mom and her family were expelled from safad in the bargaile only 77 years ago. And there are 6 million Palestinians just like that in the diaspora living in refugee camps. It happened that two years ago, because of my American passport, I went to Jerusalem, took a taxi. I told him, take me to suffer. Take me to spa, and I had a map where my grandfather, Nur Deena Ayu, had it ruined with his house and his property. I went looking for it. When I see it, where does my mom came from? Where does my Ayu family came from? And I got to see what happened? The ruins of the houses, his property became part of Tejana Marcos and isfa, those refugees in Gaza in the West Bank, in East Jerusalem and in the diaspora, we need to find a solution for them. Most of them has settled where they at, especially the ones in Jordan, three millions of them. However, we need to find hope for us Palestinian people, because if you don't have hope, then despair, then then, then maybe violence. And I don't want to see that again. And like I said earlier, the best thing is a negotiated two state solution based on the 1967 borders, with the introduction of the mechanism of land swap and compensation for the refugees. Compensation you cannot take somebody's property and says mines. And I say the same thing for the Jews who were expelled from Iraq and from Libya, from Morocco. I'm from Egypt, I'm from Syria, I'm from Iraq. Same we need to have not only ISRAEL PALESTINE peace, but Arab Jewish peace. 21 Arab countries need to have peace with Israel. Normalized relations, open embassies, exchange ambassadors. You get to visit enough for Israel, living in isolation, living by the sword for 77 for how long you going to do this? Seven? Seven years Bucha Deena told you, don't close your eyes. Keep it open, but until when the only way that US Palestinian Arabs and new Israeli Jews can live in peace and harmony is by splitting that land. You have yours, and we have ours, and maybe, hopefully in the future, the two independent state, maybe they can have a confederation between two states, because we share the water, we share the sea, we share the land, and to some extent, we share religious places. I would love, okay, for the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs to share the Abrahamic mosque in Hebron, for example, but in a peaceful way, also the Temple Mount, Okay, in a peaceful way. Thank

you. My goodness.

Wow. I

want to, I want to ask a kind of provocative question, if that's okay. I want to take another, another few minutes, because both of you are smart guys who I've I've heard handle provocateurs, and I'm not trying to be a provocateur, but I would say many people have given up on the two state solution and think of it now as a convenient way to abide the status quo. You know, continue to allow settlements to grow, and the right wing government in Israel to kind of do what it does, and to just kind of perpetuate the direction we've been going, and that in the meantime, what we have actually is a one state solution. It's just a one state that's very unequal, and so I think other you know, you have many people right now, who are, you know, who think the two state solution is not realistic anymore, and are envisioning, as you described, like a one state with a vote for everybody, which you know, rightfully, I think for many Israelis, is very challenging to even consider to Think about, and feels like a real insult to the to the work that has been put into the creation of the first Jewish sovereign nation in 2000 years, which feels like a great accomplishment, although at great cost in so many ways. So I guess my question is, given the alternatives, given the reality on the ground, it's this is two parts. First of all,

why

do you continue to advocate for what you are up here so forcefully advocating for why do you still believe that two states, self determination, for two peoples, is the right direction. And then my last question eventually will be like, What are you hoping that we American Jews and allies, because we here are not actually Israeli Jews. You're talking you Israeli. We're we're actually we live in Chicago. And so what? What might we do to advance the vision of peace and security that both of you are describing. You

are the same, Israelis Jews and American Jews. For us Arabs, you are yahud, you are Jewish. Okay without without you here, they cannot survive there.

And also for me, we are one in a way, because if you read the Declaration of Independence of Israel, it's supposed to be the country of all its citizens, equally, including the non Jews, but it is also the country of the Jewish people at large. So it's your country as well, and you have a say, and when you leave the scene to the extremists who are very active in your politics, you are actually creating a situation that will create a rift between you and the other biggest Jewish community in Israel. So we have to work on this together. I do believe that you cannot say in one state in one sentence, a one state solution, because it's not a solution. It's a catastrophe. It will be ongoing, bloodshed forever. Because I don't see a Palestinians giving up on their full rights, and I don't see us giving up on the dream of 1000s to have our homeland. So the only way is to as a as said, is to split the land into two, and if we could reach, eventually, an agreement of land for all, where Palestinians could vote for the Palestinian parliament and live in Israel, and some of the settlers could stay in Palestine and vote for the Knesset May. Be but first, there should be a Palestinian entity that could accept a decision and without this power balance where things are being dictated to them. And I think that you could help a lot, because, for some reason, the only voice that we hear from the established Jewish community, whether it's the Federations or the main organization, is we are in line with the Israeli government. And when we have in the Israeli government, Jewish supremacist and when we have people who don't even care about Israel, they care about their sector, or about their messianic dreams, and the Jewish community is just giving them carte blanche, we will lose everything that we work for. So I'm expecting Jews who care deeply about Israel, but are progressive and understand that the Palestinians deserve to have their opponent as well, to act politically, to act within the community with the politician, to make this voice much more powerful. We know from our service that most of the Jews are with us, but again, a small minority is dictating for to the politicians in America, what is the Jewish Voice? And one of the reasons why Biden was not strong enough to force Netanyahu to stop the war when it became purposeless, when it just killed more soldiers and hostages, but so many Palestinians was because he thought that the Jewish Voice will not, you know, will, will he will have to pay politically. So if you help us create a space where American foreign policy could help us solve this conflict, it will be good for America. It will be good for Palestinians. It will be good for Israel. It will be good for the

world. There are two solutions to Israel, Palestine conflict. There is no third solution, either one democratic state in which Israelis and Palestinians live, and that will include the right of return. So you'll have Palestinians going back to Ashkelon to Yafa to safad and be and we might have the majority at one point, Palestinians. The second one is a negotiated two state solution and the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, made a historical concession in 1988 in Alger, in the Palestinian national conference, the PLO agreed that US Palestinian, what we want is a state and Palestinian land occupied in 1967 there is Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem, and this is a historical concession. And we, the PLO made that concession because the PLO and US Palestinian know that if the sky fell on the earth, the Zionists in Israel will not allow for a binational state. We know that, and we know the balance of power. We know the balance of power, and I am a realist. So what, what can we do to end the occupation is Palestinian state under 1967 borders, and we will absorb the 6 million refugees in the newly established Palestinian state, not inside Israel. So I believe a negotiated two sea solution is good for the Israelis and good for us Palestinians that said the two state solution, there's a window of opportunity for it. It's not going to always be open. Why? Because there's not even grabbing the land. At one point we're going to have no land to build our state arm. And now Trump is in cahoots with the Netanyahu, and soon, maybe in two weeks or three weeks, he's going to recognize Israel's sovereignty over almost 300 settlements in the West Bank and the Jordan Valley. What will be left for us? Nothing. And when that happen? I think the PLO will change its demand. They will say to the international world, look, we don't have land to build the state on now. We just want civil rights, and we want to be part of Israel, and I don't want that, because I want my own Palestinian state, like you have your national anthem. I want to have my national anthem. I want to teach my kids Arabic. I don't want to teach them Hebrew. I want them to grow up either Christians or Muslims. I want to have a Palestinian state under the sun, and that's why. Have passion for this, and that's why I appreciate partners in Israel that I work with in order to arrive to a negotiated, twisted solution, Israel for the Jews, Palestine for the Arabs, and maybe later on, like nadev said, you know, we can have some form of agreements, maybe some form of cooperation between two sovereign states, but we cannot continue as Palestinians living under military occupation. No way. We'll continue our struggle different means. And for Americans, like I said in the beginning, your voice is very important. You are the one who elect those working in DC, and you tell them that you want them to focus an ISRAEL PALESTINE conflict and to bring the two parties to negotiation, and don't let them go home, like when Barack and Arafat came in 2020 let them go. Don't let them go until they sign it. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. I mean this conversation honestly. We could, we could continue it for a long time. And I imagine there are many people you all. You all had your questions before. I wonder if those question, you know, if you're available, stick around later, after you get a little bit of food, maybe we could have, like, you know, an ongoing conversation that's more of a conversation with anybody who

wants to Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so we can do that after, after services tonight.

Yeah, I was I was told I go to Israel, but twice a year. And

one of the saddest things that I heard the last time I was there, that nobody writes peace songs anymore, is that, like, there's not a spirit, there's not a start, there's not there's not a sense of hopefulness and

and so one of the things, and I mentioned this to this community before that, I have been told one of the things that makes us different here,

than than folks who are actually in the Land, is that we have distance from the trauma, yes,

and so things that maybe aren't possible to hold in the heart when you're in the midst of trauma, when there are rockets flying at your head, or when there are bombs falling on your house, we actually can hold from a distance. And that thing is hope, and that thing is a vision of what

you're describing, a vision of people living alongside each other, not wanting to kill each other, but actually just trying to get their kids to school on time.

And we, we uniquely from a distance, can actually hold that vision and that we have to, and if we don't, my God, like, how could, how could we expect? How can we expect folks who are so much more impacted to hold it.

And my My prayer is that we just do this sooner rather than later. People have been talking about what you've been talking about for decades and decades and decades, and my prayer is that it just happens already, and that all of us participate in the ways that we are able to bring about to bring about peace, for my children, for your children, grandchildren, and for the entire region,

I want to ask us all to stand and to join together in singing a song that was written During those hopeful times. But at first, I asked myself, like, you know, am I too cynical to sing songs of peace in a moment like this, we absolutely cannot be too cynical to

sing and to pray for peace. I.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai