Repro Shabbat Panel ft. Sarah Garza Resnick & Elizabeth Posner

What did the ancient rabbis have to say about abortion? And how are Jewish organizers today drawing inspiration from the tradition they handed down? On Friday, February 17th, we celebrated Repro Shabbat with a panel on reproductive justice hosted by Rabbi Steven and featuring two Mishkanites with extensive experience on this issue — Sarah Garza Resnick and Elizabeth Posner.

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Produced by Mishkan Chicago. Music composed, produced, and performed by Kalman Strauss.

Transcript

Transcript

Rabbi Steven Philp 
Okay. So I am so excited to be joined by to Mishkanites who are both leaders in our community but also leaders in the arena of securing reproductive rights for all people. Before before we introduce them, I just wanna provide a little bit of framing for today. This is a very old conversation that we're engaging in the rabbi's talk about reproductive rights, they debate our responsibility towards both the gestational parent the mother and the fetus that she's carrying the child once it is born. It's like it's a deep, it's so deep in our tradition and fact that you actually find the foundations of our conversations around reproductive rights in this week's Torah portion, and Misha team, the book of Exodus, the conversation there is about what do we owe? To whom are we liable? In the case where a pregnant woman is injured by somebody else? And in the process? miscarry is a an awful scenario. But the conversation there really hinges on Okay, to whom? Are we liable? Does the fetus have rights? Is it the mother is the father to whom? To whom are we do we owe restitution. And because it's a patriarchal society, unfortunately, we owe restitution to the Father in this case, um, but what that actually does is in the rabbinic tradition launched an entire conversation that results in the prioritising both the life of and the choice of the mother, and that the child becomes an autonomous human being once it leaves the womb, and but while in the womb, is actually part of the mother and therefore, part of the mother's decision making process, particularly when when her life is under consideration and potentially at risk. And so that is that is where the conversation begins. That was 3000 years ago, and then it continues for another couple 1000 years and we're going to continue that conversation today. So I want to invite on Elizabeth and Sarah, who are are popping in here we go. Awesome. Welcome Shabbat Shalom everyone. Nice to see you. So I just wanted to begin I already highlighted that you that you are awesome human beings doing awesome things, but I didn't I didn't say what awesome things you're doing. So I would think you're gonna say that better in your own words. And so I'd love for you to just introduce yourselves i Whoever wants to go first. And just give us like a sense of where are you Where are you located and and what what are you doing in the arena of reproductive rights?

Elizabeth Posner 
So I am Elizabeth Posner. I live in Chicago. I'm a Mishkan Builder and I also am the vice chair of the Planned Parenthood Illinois Action Board. Our book is responsible for the education, advocacy and political work around Planned Parenthood.

Sarah Garza Resnick 
Hi, I'm Sarah Garza. Resnick, I am also a Builder at Mishkan. I'm also on the board. My children both go to Manage Academy. And we love Mishkan. And thank you, Rabbi, Steven, for having us here to have this really important conversation. I am the new CEO of personal PAC, I just started in January, I spent a long stint being a good government reformer in my 30s and early 40s, and then spent my all of my 20s working on political campaigns all over the country. So I come to this work. Just so you guys know, personal PAC is been around for 34 years, Illinois used to be a very anti choice state. And working with Planned Parenthood, our biggest partner, we our sole focus is to elect pro choice candidates, and then to hold them accountable in office. And that is really the main reason why Ellen White is pro choice. So I'm really happy to be here and have this conversation. Thank you,

Rabbi Steven Philp 
thank you both for being here. I feel about the size of the you know, you're like leaders, the community, but you're like You're like extremely involved members. And you're like not only leaders, but movers and shakers in the field of, of reproductive rights, both in Chicago, Illinois, and also the country because what we do here, obviously resonates and has an effect across across the country in the world. So I'd love to hear I'm sure there is a much longer story behind why each of you became involved in the work to secure reproductive rights. But if you could summarize that, why this work is important to you. But in particular, because, you know, we framed this conversation by saying, you know, this is a conversation that's been happening in the Jewish community for 1000s of years. And reproductive rights have been a concern of Judaism for 1000s of years. So if you could say, you know why this work is important to you, but also, why is this work important to you as a Jew, as a member of the Jewish community?

Sarah Garza Resnick 
I'll start this time. Okay. So, you know, I was raised to leave into Kuno, lamb, I was raised at Beth EMET synagogue in Evanston, and I have socially active activist parents. So I come to this work very honestly, I do believe our job is to repair the world. I also believe that there is nothing more fundamental in the world than our bodily autonomy. If we do not have that, we have nothing. And I also I had an abortion in my early 20s, I'm very open about it. I do believe that for those of us who have done it and feel comfortable talking, it is absolutely imperative that we share our stories, this is not taboo. It doesn't happen to you know, only a certain type of woman or person, it happens to any of us at any time in our lives. And we must speak openly and honestly about it. And I and to tussle with it, right. And to me, that is what being Jewish is about. It's about dealing with the hard things of life. And I look to my face, to kind of ground me in that. And I am so proud to be a Jew. And I do believe that this country is wrong on so many issues about our actions towards women right now. But it is also a violation of our religious beliefs. And I hope that, you know, that gets to the courts. I know that there are rabbis in Florida that have brought action. And I do think that the laws in this country are violating our religious freedom.

Elizabeth Posner 
Thank you. Well, I think Sara pretty much a lot of what I also and I think a lot of Jewish people believe we were raised with takuna alum, I think that almost more than the theology for me, is the notion to repair the world to do for others. My grandmother always said, Are you Jewish? Yeah. So you were a good person? Yes, then you're a good Jew. So the whole notion that being a good person is really and doing good works is what's really most important. So and then a variety of issues, not just reproductive rights, but civil rights, making sure things are fair amongst all citizens. So I think I too, was raised in that I also feel being Jewish is like another pillar of support that I can turn to in terms of my reproductive rights work. I know that even my faith believes that the life of the person having carrying a child is sacrosanct. And I know that my faith supports that. So that lifts me up and is just another pillar of support that I can turn to in being Jewish. I also feel that there couldn't be anything More important than the right to control what you do with your own body no matter what that is not just abortion care, but the right to do anything you want with your own body. And I will also share, I absolutely agree. And I think we can put this up in the chat sharing our stories, D stigmatizing the word abortion, let's use the a word, let's talk about it have conversations, I too, had an abortion in my early 20s, I would not have the three children I have today, if I had not had an abortion in my early 20s. And we need to have these conversations. And like Sarah, that's something I didn't talk about freely and openly for a really long time. And I was a member of the movement. So we all have to start talking about this feeling comfortable. The more you talk about, the better you feel. And we have a Planned Parenthood share your abortion story. And there'll be a link in the chat that that will come up that where you can share your own story because the more we talk about it, the more accepted it is and this narrative, this abortion narrative has been hijacked by the other side for a really long time. So I hope that answered the question of being Jewish being a good person and a person who believes in freedom and rights. And they someone else's religion isn't better. I'm not trying to tell anyone, they have to believe what I believe. But the converse is true. I don't want someone to tell me my religion subscribes to this belief, and therefore, it should be the belief for the whole country.

Rabbi Steven Philp 
Thank you, I really appreciate that. A, there's so much that comes to mind in these in these moments. And you know, I'm thinking of of one of the things I deeply appreciate about being a Jew is that so much of what we do is a lived practice. It's how we live out our values, not just professing them, but actually actually doing them. And I think of Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, talking about praying with our feet to really actually like to pray in a synagogue and talk about our values is not enough. But to actually get out there to do the work, to, to really put our feet where our mouth is, you know, not so much money or mouth is where your mouth is right to actually like do the right to do the thing, which I both of you clearly are doing. So I would love Sarah, if you don't mind talking a little bit about what is, you know, we're coming up on the year since Roe v. Wade was overturned. And there's been a lot happening in our country and Illinois as well. What is the lay of the land right now when it comes to abortion access and reproductive rights?

Sarah Garza Resnick 
Yeah, I mean, it's scary. So I'm not going to sugarcoat this, there are really good things going on. In lots of states, there is reason to have hope. So I'm going to say a bunch of stats right now, because I really think it's important that people grounding themselves in what's actually going on. So 60% of people who receive abortions are in their 20s, over 50% of people who have abortions already have children. And the most common reasons that people have abortions are because of demands of work and wanting to complete education, the ability to care for existing children, and, frankly, not being able to afford the high cost of having a child in this in this country where we don't support families. Right now, in the country. There are 17 states that have a complete banned or so severely restricted that it's basically a complete ban on abortion. There are in the middle about 16 states that have pretty severe restrictions, which make it very hard and difficult to have an abortion. There are 17 states that it is available to have an abortion and still, but if you look at the map, we are in the center of the country. And we are the only state that people can easily well easily more easily traveled to more readily have be able to travel to and we're the closest so that Illinois is the largest, by far recipient of medical refugees who cannot get health care, critical health care in their own states. Colorado is second, but like we are exponentially higher. And so, you know, I asked the question all the time, like why is Illinois like this? And I said this a little bit in the introduction but within a sea of red. Why is Illinois a safe haven. There are Planned Parenthood's thank God in every state, even though abortion might be outlawed. They are providing critical health care. In my 20s. When I didn't have health insurance. I was working on political campaigns. And I was in law school. I depended on Planned Parenthood's all over this country to get access to you know, critical health care. But really, it's the partnership between Planned Parenthood and my organization personal PAC. As I said, Illinois was a very rich restrictive states. And there were trigger laws on the books. I think Elizabeth might talk about this a little bit later, until very, very recently that once, if Roe was ever overturned, it would have been outlawed in Illinois. And personal Pac and the ACLU and Planned Parenthood work together, and actually had a Republican governor repeal that law. So let's talk about ground ourselves a little bit more in facts. This landscape is evolving every single day. And it is very hard to keep track of things. I mean, I have to read so many news outlets just to know what is going on. But abortion is more than just about fundamental health care. It is also about racial equity. Because of all the other systemic racial injustice is in this country. The bans of abortion disproportionately impact BiPAC and low income women. So let's talk about facts. Now, these four states I'm going to mention all have outlawed abortion. But let's talk about who was getting abortions before this law, the complete bans on abortion in Mississippi, the BiPAC population is 44%. But they were 81% of the abortions happening in that country. I mean, in that state before the ban, Texas 59% of the population, but 74% of the abortions. Alabama, by pox community is 35% of the population. But they got 69% of the abortions. And in Louisiana, it's 42 and 72. And why do we have this large discrepancy, because of the limited access to health care, these are states that do not have expanded Medicare and Medicaid services for people, they don't have access to birth control then, and there's a complete lack of sex education. There's never a discussion about abortion or birth control. It's only about abstinence. So imagine being one of these women in the States. And you find yourself pregnant now. And you're living paycheck to paycheck, and you might have two children. And you don't have control over your schedule and can just take off time from work. You don't have childcare, and you don't have the gas money to get to a state. It is absolutely petrifying. I mean I cry every time I think about it, I can't imagine being them. And I want everyone on this call to realize that almost every single one of us if we or our loved ones were in that situation, would be able to put the money together. And even if abortion was completely outlawed, we could get to a different country, we would find a private doctor. And if we didn't have the money in our bank accounts, we probably have somebody who loves us enough to loan us the money or give it to us. So what is it like for women right now, if you live in one of these states. On top of feeling alone and scared and having myths and disinformation thrown at you, we have crisis pregnancy centers who are just outright lying to women and pretending to give them health care and scare them out of abortions or travel. You have to when you call a clinic here in Illinois, this is what happens. There are long long waits, Illinois just passed a great bill called the provider and patient health care act that is going to allow registered nurses physician assistants to be performed first term abortions, which is great, but doctors are also scared for themselves and their own safety, both their physical safety and the and possible prosecutions that are coming down the line. So you call a clinic. Because we're Illinois has so much pressure from all the other parts of the country, the weights are weeks long, then they then they connect you to a service provider that can help you figure out how you're going to get to Illinois. Fun that trip to Illinois, what you're going to do with your children, how you're going to get off work, how you're going to explain this. And we had were your will be working on another bill that just got introduced or will be introduced on Monday to protect all of the electronic tracking license plates are being tracked. Your menstrual apps can be tracked. Where are these phones, tell the government where you are. And there are zealous district attorneys and State's Attorneys all over this country that can hardly wait to charge women and their providers with crimes. So why is this? I went over the numbers. And so the last thing I'll say is this is I want us to live with this data of what black maternal health and infant health is in this country. Why being forced to be pregnant is just fundamentally wrong. But it is also a death sentence at a greater rate for our black sisters. Forever every 100,000 births. This just came out this week. 173 babies will die before their first year of wealthy white mothers For poorest the poorest white mothers, it is 350. It is 437 for the richest black mothers. And it is 653 for the poorest black mothers, that should shock us and scare us. For the rate of maternal mortality for every 100,000 births, it is five women die in New Zealand, it is eight in the UK, Canada and France. The average here is 17.4 in the United States, but for black women, it is 68.9. Our system is failing us. And now women are being forced to travel 1000s of miles, give up pay at work, all just to get fundamental health care. And it just cannot say enough. I want everyone to imagine being one of these women. What this country is inflicting the trauma we are inflicting on people is just wrong. And we all must say it must end. Thanks.

Rabbi Steven Philp 
Thank you, sir. I really appreciate that you in giving us a sense of where we are in reproductive rights. Now you couch it within the larger entangled systems of wealth inequality, access to things like pre right prenatal health care, and postnatal services, childcare, free childcare, education, those things that just don't always exist, and that it's not it's not just the one issue, right? It's an entire web of issues that I really appreciate that you highlighted how it disproportionately impacts people of color. And people living with poverty at a much greater rate at a much greater rate at a actually a really horrifying rate. Yeah. That's, that's a lot. Something you did

Elizabeth Posner 
a lot to unpack there. dovetail a little bit into what Sarah said, If you overlay the same states that ban abortion are the same states that have the highest infant mortality and maternal mortality rate are the same states that don't invest in education are the same states that don't provide health care. It all is, these are all intersectional issues. And we have to approach it as such. When we talk about abortion rights and Roe being overturned, people should know there wasn't access to abortion for many people all over the country well before Dobbs decision came down. And that's part of what we've been talking about here. There's a lack of equity in health care and abortion is health care. That's another thing that I think the narrative has to be abortion is healthcare and healthcare is a human right. And the fact that access didn't exist before has only exponentially affected the communities that Sara so eloquently pointed out, has only exacerbated and made that worse. In terms of the trigger laws Sarah was talking about. Here in Illinois, we've been lucky because we had the reproductive health act on the books, that even if Roe was overturned, we would still be protected. But we had to make sure we elected Supreme Court justices and politicians who would maintain those laws, because at any moment, those can be overturned by a non an anti choice governor and anti choice Supreme Court. So bravo, Illinois, as Sarah pointed out, we were actually quite a conservative state. And now we have a full in our governor or attorney general or lieutenant governor, all the way down the line and to our Supreme Court, we have a pro choice majority in the House and Senate. And that is just there, there isn't enough kudos to be had I'm so proud to be an Illinois, one in a C in the midwest of those who would take away women's rights. And not only that, try to attack those even coming into our state. So I got a phone call from someone. This is what really killed me, a friend of mine, who I had a friend in Texas, who was afraid to even go on her laptop to explore the options she might have anywhere. So she had to call her friend, have her do it because she was so afraid of what Sarah's pointing out. So we are living in a country now in total fear. I was at a panel where we were talking to gynecologist and abortion care providers who said that the influx of 18 to 24 year old women seeking getting their tubes tied. They have never seen that because they are so afraid of getting pregnant and what they would do. The incidence of men getting vasectomies has also skyrocketed. I have to say that that's partially a good thing. Men do your part join join the movement, but the fact that people feel that they don't have options that can't stand. I will say the other point, we know that most Americans support abortion rights, even in some cases, we know that to be true. And we know that to be true in this last cycle of elections we saw in states you would never imagine they would protect abortion rights, Kentucky, Kansas, Montana, Vermont, you might think MNDF, Minnesota, all now had laws on their books that protect a woman's right to choose no matter what. So we know that this is, by far the majority of Americans support some level of abortion care, and we just have to keep at it, continue to fight the fight to make sure everyone has that access. I think we were also going to talk a little bit about specifically in Chicago, what's happening, as Sarah pointed out, we have people we have healthcare refugees coming from all over the not even all over the Midwest, Planned Parenthood has seen patients from over 30 states come to Illinois, we are prepared, Planned Parenthood actually built additional clinics on the southern border of Missouri and up towards Indiana to make sure we knew what was coming down the pike. And we want to make sure we have that health care, we have 10 of our 17 health centers are in the Chicagoland area. So we are prepared to do that we also were able to and thanks to Governor Pritzker pass laws that allowed caregivers in Wisconsin to come down to Illinois and begin to give care here, which is extremely helpful. So all that is very positive. But it takes coordinated effort, and a lot of lobbying and a lot of people coming together to to make that happen. So I think we should all be really proud of what Illinois has done. And our state has done to support those all around us.

Rabbi Steven Philp 
So that's kind of a question I'm holding. And there's multiple levels to this, which is, at least for the time being, and God willing, this will change in the very near future. But obviously, we have to prepare for the worst case scenario, which is that Illinois is going to be or continue to be this island of access in a sea of an access. And so at a state level, right at a city level, right, Chicago, having right 10 to the 17 clinics, I think you mentioned and then we're eventually going to get you as a community right as as Mishkan as a community, like what role do you see us playing in the future? And you can you could take any one of those three levels, or all of them, but really like, you know, understand that we are this island and we are this refuge. You know, what is our responsibility? What is it our opportunity to provide support for both medical refugees and also for people within our own state and to ensure that we remain an island, but perhaps also, I would hope, a leader as well, and changing things more broadly.

Sarah Garza Resnick 
Yeah, I mean, I think we have to be so thankful for Governor Pritzker, he really is such champion for women. It is, I've spent a lot of time with him, you know, in small groups, and he really does believe this. But I have to say like, all of us probably remember that we've had Republican governors for a long time. We just had one before JB was our governor. And so we don't we're not an island, by mistake, or by happenstance. We're an island because people have been incredibly intentional in keeping Illinois making Illinois pro choice and keeping it and we cannot let off the gas for one minute. People have to support personal pack and Planned Parenthood. Without and the ACLU without us. This goes away very fast. Because of where we are in this country, the anti choice movement that has been emboldened and let out of the, you know, the proverbial Genie. The genie has been led out and they are coming after us. And so without our your financial support, and your volunteer hours, organizations like us cannot keep the doors open. And what I hear on the phones a lot is Bill in Illinois is fine. And it's like no, Illinois is fine, because we worked really hard. And they are going to be coming after our providers and our patients and all of us and so if you believe in this, please, please, please support us. If you can even give $5 a month, everything matters. And this is going to take a collective effort. And, you know, on Monday I in my personal pack is releasing a very comprehensive voter guide for the municipal elections. And we asked very soon CIPA questions about what municipalities can do to help support abortion rates. And there are things that they can do. And the city has done a lot under Mayor Lightfoot. But there's more that we could do. And so please check out our voter guide on Monday. There are, we're lucky that almost every single person running for mayor right now is pro choice. There's one, Willie Wilson, who's not it's going to be public. So I'm not like, and but there are aldermanic candidates who are not pro choice who think that taxpayer dollars should go to find healthier places that don't believe in reproductive rights. And we believe a personal PAC, that it's our obligation to inform voters who care very deeply about this, but it's hard to know everything about, you know, everything going on. I have other things to say. But Elizabeth, please pipe in?

Elizabeth Posner 
Well, I mean, I would say in Chicago to Chicago abortion fund and Midwest access coalition are two excellent organizations that you can also support who provide abortion care, to folks coming in Chicago, and folks coming into Chicago. So I do want to highlight those two organizations. What can you as a community, do you know, whether your sphere is your family dinner table, or the public forum, talk about abortion, talk about what this means, be an advocate for abortion rights. Be prepared with accurate information like what Sarah shared, I can't believe sometimes people who I know are pro choice, who really don't understand who are the people getting abortions, and who are the people that really need this care, it's really important to give the accurate facts, share your stories, you can volunteer at Planned Parenthood, actually, we, as we were talking about, it's people are coming now to Illinois, they don't have to harass patients in Wisconsin, or Indiana, or Missouri. So they're coming to Illinois. And we actually had our Peoria health center got firebombed about three weeks ago, the damage done to that clinic will take months and millions of dollars to repair. So now instead of 17, health centers were 16 health centers. And so it's so important that you continue to just talk about it. And I believe we can put in the chat. How you can volunteer, we actually because we have to vet our volunteers because you can't have bad actors. This is something even when we're on a call, we have to make sure if someone's calling in like who are you to make sure because that happens a lot. So please, it's a it's a long process, but worth it. So we people, we need to be experts at clinics, but other volunteer opportunities as well. With Planned Parenthood, we also have something falling coming up called activist you like university, and there's more information, I think they're providing a link in the chat for that as well. So you can get more involved. And I would say as Sarah said, vote your values. You know, we can talk about being pro choice, we can talk about all the issues that I feel in, in the Jewish community, we talk about having common sense gun laws, fighting climate change. But if we don't vote for the people who support those issues, then we're really not supporting those issues. So I would say get to know the municipal elections are coming up in Chicago. But I would say I know we have people tuning in from many states, find out in your own state. What's going on? Who are the candidates who support truly support choice, go on their websites, and look for that specifically. And if it's not there, that's a clue. Because these times every single person on their website will have whether they support reproductive health care, or if they don't know. So I would say vote your values.

Sarah Garza Resnick 
And ask them right like Go ask your elected officials when you go to forums. What do you what is your stance on reproductive rights? It should be the first thing everybody's asking. Organize your community, talk to people I talk about abortion to everybody. And you should see people are like, Oh, we're having this conversation. But then they kind of warm up to it. And if you ever want to have a house party with a near Oregon, bring your neighbors and friends like personal pack has those we can bring people to help educate people. And really, like find a community. I know Planned Parenthood does it I know personal PAC doesn't, that it's fun to go volunteer with and build community through this and don't give up like, there are more of us. We are in the majority. Actually Republican women are with us now. And Republican men you know certain demographics are to the majority of the public is on our side and we cannot let the fear mongering And the myths and disinformation, control us we we can win. And we will have abortion rights rated and stored reinstated in this country.

Elizabeth Posner 
Well, and to that point, that's why voting rights and making sure we support voting rights and access to vote are so important. Because we can't let a minority of folks and I'm talking about the six people on the Supreme Court decide the fate of millions of Americans who don't believe what what they're espousing. So yes, everything says,

Rabbi Steven Philp 
I'll be about a mentor all of that. And, as a rabbi, I cannot tell you who to vote for. But I can tell you that voting is not only a Jewish value, it is a Jewish obligation. So this is your friendly, rabbinic reminder, after Shabbat, ensure that you are registered to vote, find your polling place, and go interrogate your candidates to express your values through your ballot, which I think is just beautifully stated, again, going back to the idea that one of the really fundamental ways that we express our Judaism is through what we do. And that can include how we vote, as well. So I just wanted to thank both of you for being just inspirational members of the Mishkan community, for doing this incredibly holy work. And it is holy work, fighting for reproductive rights and for access to abortion, of really embodying what it means to take your Judaism and your Jewish values and express it through not only what you think and what you believe, but more importantly, what you do that how you walk through the world. So you only go from strength to strength and may we very soon see a day where this is a conversation of the past and a more celebratory presence. So thank you, thank you.